LETTER – Decision on the PAC proposal may come down to just 1,000 ‘votes’

(Image: Station One Architects)
1,000 votes.
That’s all that’s needed, 1,000 additional votes and the PAC is defeated. During the last election our mayor received 7,300 votes, all that is required to defeat the AAP this time around is 8,300 votes, that’s just 1,000 votes more than the mayor received, not exactly a daunting amount.
Knowing this, one might think that the hateful 8 or is it the gang of 8, maybe it should be the PAC of 8, whatever, as I was saying, one might think those 8 other people would ease up a bit, lay low for the summer. Nope, not this octarchy, just over a week ago on a Friday afternoon they took their latest punitive shot. By removing or is it neutering the mayor from the TNRD and Kamloops Airport Authority Society, yes neutering is the right verb, after all what’s left for them to take? Well, they just couldn’t help themselves, they don’t have the discipline to let the sleeping dog lie, they had to make that last incision.
Ron Fawcett must be shaking his head for backing these horses.
Sure the mayor supported the PAC when it was a $90-million build last year and again this past January when it was a $120-million build, although he had a few questions or was it a little weak-kneed, Kelly, could you clarify? When the price recently hit $154 million questions became concerns, but now when there’s talk of a number closer to $175 million and an opportunity to give the shaft to his friends around the horseshoe, well what’s a word stronger than concern, a much stronger word?
If, or is it when, the mayor pulls his support for the PAC how many of those 7,300 will follow? Moreover, what of the 70 per cent who didn’t bother to vote during the last election, how many of those “would be” voters have become ”will be” voters this time around?
CFJC-TV ran a seven-day poll a few weeks ago about the PAC, 1,406 votes for the PAC, 1,601 against, that’s 53.25 per cent against. Remember the 2015 referendum, that had a 53.7 per cent no vot;, not a whole lot of progress in nine years. Politically speaking, taking a stand opposing council on a topic which the city is split down the middle might be a wise re-election strategy, one might even say Machiavellian. Do we know anybody who’s running for re-election?
Is there anyone who really thinks this AAP has a snowball’s chance of succeeding? Personally, I don’t think the checker players who came up with this AAP idea thought things through thoroughly.
You take a very divisive mayor with an extremely loyal base of supporters, you add in an extremely expensive project which half the city vetoed within recent memory when the borrowing cost was a third (cough cough) of what it is now and then top it off with an exceedingly unpopular council, not exactly the ingredients for the soup of the day. The question on the ballot might as well be if you think puppies aren’t huggable, this council’s not coming away with a victory.
If the prevailing wish was that fewer motivated no voters would stay home, they are right, less motivated voters will stay home, and they will vote, at home. A referendum requires the voter to leave their house, drive/bike/walk to the nearest polling station, wait in line, vote and finally return home, a waste of about an hour out of their Saturday afternoon in September, when the weather is nice, sunny but not too hot.
The AAP requires the voter to check a box, stick it in an envelope or drop it off at a receiving box, hell, volunteers will likely canvass your neighbourhood picking ballots up. Whatever the case, we’re talking about a couple of minutes at the voter’s convenience, this is not a high bar, not after we’ve gone thru COVID and all the online business that entailed.
And I haven’t even begun to talk about the those who support the idea of a PAC but oppose this project due to cost or lack of transparency or concerns over operating costs, or the added tax burden (trivia, what’s presently the second highest taxed city in the province?) or the lack of trust with administration/council or a number of other valid concerns.
The city is now claiming to have 87,131 eligible voters; 22 months ago BC Elections estimated we had 76,327 for the municipal election. Really, are we to believe Kamloops had an increase of 10,804 eligible voters, not citizens, but actual voters in 22 months, that’s a tough sell. Ya, let’s add that to the trust issue.
Okay, so let’s split the difference and call it 83,000 eligible voters, making a 8,300 vote threshold, that’s 1,000 more votes than the mayor received last election. I don’t see 1,000 additional votes as a very high bar to pass, scratch that, make it 999.
MAC GORDON
My issues with Council passing the PAC proposal is (as has been said before) the lack of transparency. In past efforts prior to the two Referendum Council held several events where the public was invited to view the various aspects of a PAC. During these events we were able to view inside and outside of the building via the Architects’ draft plans and an opportunity to ask questions. It was an open and welcoming process where those of us attending came away much better informed. However, then as now, one of my questions was not and still has not been mentioned — and that is the cost of maintenance of such an entity. Having managed recreational facilities for some years, I under stand the daily expenditures (heat, hydro, water, cleaning costs etc.) And, on the other side of the ledger is the Revenue. User groups will pay a “rental fee” based on something. Sometimes this rental is calculated on a per person (or “bums in seats” basis, or for other events it may be calculated differently; i.e. for young school children). You get it, there is a myriad of ways Revenue per event can be calculated. ALL of the various forms of Income however is UNLIKELY to provide a DAILY Income that comes anywhere near to DAILY expenses. Of course, as this location is prime real estate: it is also prime COMMERCIAL space. Perhaps the plan may include renting the perimeter of the building to various commercial endeavours? i.e. Shops selling clothing that’s attractive to the “Upscale Theatre Patron” — another shop might be selling dressy shoes for the male and female theatre patron. And then again someone might open an exclusive Book Store dealing in stories about Theatre Around The World. Another shop might want to invest a ‘staging’ of the current theatre production taking place.
Of course on the Revenue side there will be numerous Grants that Theatre and Symphonies that regularly use the facility will be applying for. These Grants will hopefully be given by both the Provincial and Federal Governments. I’m sure that you get my drift – what is the detailed proposal of this PAC as wonderful as it might be – how will it pay for itself?
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Is there a breakdown for how they came up with$140million for the PAC and $135million for the Sports facility? It seems like an awful lot of money for these projects. Especially, if it doesn’t include the cost of the land.
Hopefully, people know that they can vote no for one project and support the other. Thus cutting the total borrowed – $275million – in half.
You can dislike the council and/or the mayor and still support one project or the other or both. By the time the photo op with the shovel is ready, there will likely have been an election.
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I carry a sign as well most mornings, (and I am proud to do so), that say the “gang of 8 have lost their integrity”. It is the primary core of a person. Politicians elected as an individual suddenly joins a team, and then demonstrates his or her honesty to all constituents by their actions since October 2022. The abuse of power from these councilors has further demonstrated what these councilors are and the respect they have for our Canadian Values.
As I see it the Mayor has kept his integrity in spite of the abuse. And I will stand with a man with integrity any time. And what would you do? Ask yourself that question?
As a side note the media has shown that they are not to be trusted. Look at Radio NL and the policy there. They are supposed to be neutral. I wonder about their operating license and if the average business will support them.
And thank you Mel for standing up for Democracy. It takes courage and integrity to do so.
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At our “coffee group” yesterday morning, the subject of location was discussed. Most of us were living in Kamloops when the former Daily News building (formerly the Hudson Bay?) was demolished. Even though a lot of material was removed from the site, the general feeling, from memory, was that a sizeable about of material was left in the ground and was buried. Then the parking lot was made on top of it.
A number of the senior City management may or may not have been here at the time that happened. Chief Uzeloc, whose department might be involved if toxic waste is found once the shovels are put in the ground, is one of the players. Byron McCorkell is another. How about Jen Fretz and Marvin Kwiatkowski?
Then comes to mind some of the members of Build Kamloops who sit as City Councillors.
Were any of the readers here in town and watched the Daily News building being demolished and the clean-up afterwards? How are the memories of the demolition and removal of materials?
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Many years ago, when the newspaper was still operating, asbestos was removed throughout the building. Other than that I’m not aware of any other toxic materials being there. It was never used for fuel storage to my knowledge, for example, such as the site of what is now the TNRD-art gallery was, which required a great deal of environmental work before it could be built on.
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Many of the solvents, inks and pigments used in printing are/were toxic. I believe the KDN had a printing press in the basement so depending on how the site was managed the soils beneath the building could have been contaminated. Not saying they were but printing presses are suspect for sure.
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Yes, and it would also require knowing what type of ink was used. While early inks were petroleum based, they were largely replaced with soy- or water-based inks.
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Well Mr. Gordon, another disappointing rant. What makes you think we have an “exceedingly unpopular council”. I don’t hear any complaints outside this blog.
It’s easy to sit back and take cheap shots at staff and Councillors who can’t respond. The only continuous city hall grumblers I encounter are those who post opinions to this opinion form.
At first, I thought you might have something useful to say. Sadly, disillusioned once again. Rather than limited yourself to a well thought out strategy and game plan for taking on the AAP, just more Council beating and feeding red meat to others of your ilk.
And your “neutering” reference, just another vehicle to go after Council and staff. Plus, it’s in very poor taste. Mr. Gordon, you might try raising your bar just a little.
As I understand it Mr. Gordon, Mr. Fawcett is extremely pleased with the direction Council have taken to move Kamloops forwards towards becoming an existing place to live, work and play.
From this point on Mr. Gordon, your letter was a mumbo jumbo of meaningless confusion. It didn’t make any sense at all.
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Shall we be seeing your name as a candidate for Mayor in the next civic election? Or maybe as a Councillor?
I’d like to see you and Mr. Gordon in a live debate.
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I am not good with having the people who want the pac knowing who is against it. Who reads the submitted forms and what is done with them after.
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The forms are read by the Corporate Officer, Maria Mazzotta. If I were a city staffer I would be afraid to cast a no vote. I imagine doing so would adversely affect their career.
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I wonder if a legal challenge can be mounted against the AAP on those bases?
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Mac raises a prescient point that could have legal implications for the city – the threshold set for a no vote (and inversely, a yes result).
What is the source of the population figures they have used? Is it an official third-party source like Electrons BC or Elections Canada? Is it census data (likely not because statistics are for losers only, and council and administration is full of winners)? Will there be a legal challenge after the outcome?
I wonder if Mel has any expertise to share as to the rules around how a population figure is determined for AAP.
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The formula for determining the number of eligible electors, presented to council on Tuesday, goes like this:
The estimated number of eligible electors for the Alternative Approval Process is based on
information gathered from Statistics Canada 2021 Census, BC Stats, and City records as
calculated below:
1. Estimated population in the area 110,289
2. Estimated number of people 18 years of age or older 91,387
3. Minus the number of people estimated as not being Canadian citizens 6,257
4. Minus the number of people who are estimated not to be residents of
British Columbia for the past six months 260
5. Add the estimated number of eligible non-resident property electors 2,261
Total Estimated Electors 87,131
6. 10% of the total number of estimated eligible electors
For the complete report including the calculation rationale, go here:
https://kamloops.civicweb.net/document/187755/REP_AAP%20BL%2057-1%20and%2057-2%20Implementation_V2-2024-07.pdf?handle=21D155004EAA401AAAF389A3C03248B6
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Thanks for the thorough explanation. But I would be remiss to not point out that this referendum is for losers, as it’s based heavily of statistical data. Therefore, Kelly Hall will not accept the results, because he’s a winner, not a loser.
I’m beginning to understand the genius of the councillor.
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Here’s some food for thought: Average voter turnout for Kamloops is approximately 30%. Therefore, 30% of the 87,131 estimated voters works out to 26,139 people that will actually take the time to vote. The AAP requires 8,713 voters to fill out the forms to vote “no”. That, would in fact mean that they are asking for a 33.3% (8,713 divided by 26,139) “no” vote, not really the 10 % that is being stated.
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I think Kamloops needs a PAC. However, I think city hall’s continual trumpeting of “only an average of $25 extra/year is disingenuous, since it’s really going to be a $125/year tax increase for the 30-year life of the loan and beyond.
I also have grave concerns about the location. Again, why didn’t Build Kamloops create plans for a PAC big enough to serve our city for at least 35 years and then find a suitable location rather than trying to squeeze a too-small facility (with very limited parking) into the 4th and Seymour lot?
And the AAP itself is flawed. Starting in summer is manipulative and the fact that it isn’t a secret ballot is concerning. When a member of the public raised this issue at Tuesday’s council meeting, Byron McCorkell shrugged it off, saying that the ballots would be shredded. Sure. After someone at city hall has checked all the names and made a list. And how about city staffers? Will they be nervous about casting a no vote since their boss will be seeing their names on a ballot?
If city hall thinks their current PAC plan is so great, why are they resorting to such measures to get taxpayer buy-in?
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Because the lot at 4th and Seymour was chosen by the lords and overpaid. Can’t have it as a lonely parking lot…
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I’d like the outdoor rink to go there instead of in Riverside Park. It would be much easier to police and access is already well lit, unlike the park. It would encourage pedestrian traffic and boost downtown business. Would look so pretty in winter! In the off-season it could be covered in artificial turf and be an outdoor community space. Could have the farmer’s market there, entertainment, etc.
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We must not forget that they already included a 1% ($25 ??) increase in our 2024 property taxes for this project.
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The predominant reason I will vote no is because of the chosen process, the disingenuous explanation of total costs (aka the used car salesman approach), and the overall cost. The true purpose of the APP is not to secure an accurate reflection of sentiment toward the approval, but to game the system to achieve a predetermined outcome.
This is also the worst council in Canadian history. I don’t have the facts to back that up, but facts are for losers.
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And dare we forget the rally cry from Councillor Katie to ‘get our heads out of the sand, the weeds’ ?
Another memorable quote.
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I love you how you try to dress it up with lack of transparency cost over ends previous no votes, parking, etc.. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again if this was money for a monster truck facility, Kamloops would approve it hands-down.
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Again, Mac, you tie things together well. Sure, there are some folks who voted for the Mayor who will not vote against borrowing the money for the PAC. But, some who voted for the gang of 8 members may have become pretty disgusted with their bullying and vote against the borrowing just to send a message to the “surgeons” at the horse shoe.
Having been one of the fellows who carry a placard in the morning, I can tell you that Reid is still a very popular man. His popularity has been bolstered through the act of bullying. It seems that very few people who drive by us are not sensitive to the idea that bullying is one of the lowest forms of human behaviour. We have been thanked for having the courage to stand up for a guy who has been the victim of bullying.
BY the way, we have seen no others out supporting any of the gang of 8 even though they have the right to do so.
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CFJC’s poll is unscientific.
Try again.
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I’m sure there are people who voted for the mayor that want the PAC.
Try again.
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