ROTHENBURGER – BC Conservatives and a misunderstanding of ‘denialism’

CAN WE PLEASE get the definition of “denialism” straight?

Denialism does not mean simply disagreeing with the viewpoints or claims of fact of another. Yet that’s the definition placed on it by some in the ongoing reconciliation debate.

There are various ways of stating it but the proper definition of denialism is this: “Denialism is the practice of refusing to accept the truth of scientific or other facts.” (Collins dictionary) Claiming, for example, that the murder of millions in the Holocaust is a hoax, despite undeniable physical evidence.

Anyone who questions the existence of unmarked graves at residential schools runs the risk of being branded a “racist” or a “denialist. But the existence of unmarked graves, containing the remains of children who were in attendance at the schools, hasn’t been proven. Those who use the technology to search for graves caution that their findings can’t be considered definitive proof of the presence of human remains.

In other words, ground penetrating radar can’t provide scientific truth on the issue of unmarked graves. There’s a way to obtain empirical evidence, however, and that’s to excavate. Only a handful of residential school grounds have been excavated and so far nothing has been found.

The Tk’emlúps te Secwe̓pemc band, which started the entire controversy with its announcement in 2021 that the “remains” of 215 children had been located with radar, has yet to excavate. It says protocols have to be worked out. In the meantime, the band now refers to the GPR findings as “anomalies” rather than confirmed gravesites.

So, Vancouver-Quilchena MLA Dallas Brodie was correct when she posted on social media a couple of weeks ago that “The number of confirmed child burials at the former Kamloops Indian Residential School site is zero. Zero. No one should be afraid of the truth. Not lawyers, their governing bodies, or anyone else.”

The background to her post is that a lawyer named Jim Heller is fighting the Law Society of B.C. over statements the society made about him. Heller tried to add a single word to training materials on reconciliation. He wanted “potential” or “possible” to be inserted into a line about the discovery of unmarked graves.

Heller is now suing the law society, which rejected his amendment, for defamation over some of the things that were said about him.

So when Brodie was pilloried as a racist and denialist I thought, here we go again. But the situation is nuanced. Brodie went beyond a mere statement of fact and, in a video, ridiculed indigenous people who believe in the existence of bodies at the residential schools, saying, “This whole thing about my truth, your truth.’ This stuff has to stop.”

It wasn’t even those words that ended up creating a split in Brodie’s Conservative party. It was the mocking tone she used in her remarks about “truth.”

Party leader John Rustad, who had first asked Brodie to take down her original social media post (she refused), announced yesterday (Friday, March 8, 2025) that Brodie has been booted from the Conservative caucus and must now sit as an independent.

Brodie was undaunted, repeating in a letterhead statement yesterday that “It’s an indisputable fact that the number of bodies discovered at Kamloops is zero.”

She also said, “Politicians like David Eby and John rustad are willing to sell off British Columbia’s wealth and power, transferring it from the public to an elite racial minority – enriching opportunistic lawyers, consultants, and chiefs along the way.”

It’s not clear what the “elite racial minority” is but it’s the kind of remark that’s bound to antagonize. Regardless, two other Conservative MLAs — Tara Armstrong of Kelowna-Lake Country Coldstream and Jordan Kealy of Peace River North — have left the Conservatives in solidarity with Brodie, and there’s talk of setting up their own party. With at least three renegade MLAs, and very possibly more to join them, the requirement for at least two sitting members in order to qualify as a party will easily be met.

It’s notable that Brodie doesn’t deny the “deep harm” done by residential schools. “The stand I’m taking is rooted in the need for truth,” she has said. “And I don’t think standing for truth takes away anything from the severity of what happened at the residential schools. I’m a lawyer. I believe in evidence, truth and pursuit of truth, and I think lawyers should be allowed to ask questions.”

But merely commenting that no bodies have been found is enough to draw condemnation from some corners.

Rustad sent out a news release early yesterday afternoon announcing her banishment. “Yesterday, MLA Dallas Brodie challenged the Conservative Party of BC caucus to fire her — including by asking Conservative MLAs to have a vote on removing her — and made the decision to walk out of the Conservative Party of BC caucus room,” it began.

“As a result of her decision to publicly mock and belittle testimony from former residential school students, including by mimicking individuals recounting stories of abuses — including child sex abuse, MLA Brodie is not welcome to return to our Conservative Party of BC Caucus,” the release continued.

Let’s include the rest of the release to make sure it’s all in context:

“Horrible things happened to vulnerable children at Residential Schools — including pedophiles preying on children; at Kamloops Indian Residential School, Gerald Mathieu Moran was charged and convicted by Canadian courts with several dozen sex crimes he committed against children while working there.

“In a recent podcast appearance, Dallas Brodie uses a mocking, child-like voice to belittle testimony from former residential school students, saying things like “my grandmother’s truth” and “my truth, your truth” in a child-like ‘whining’ voice.

 “I believe strongly in free speech — however, using your stature and platform as an MLA to mock testimony from victims alleging abuse, including child sex abuse, is where I draw the line.

 “I want to be clear — this has nothing to do with whether or not there are undiscovered remains at Kamloops Indian Residential School, where it is objectively true that no new bodies have been found.

 “This is about an elected MLA using her position of authority to mock testimony of survivors of abuse, including child sex abuse.

“Our Conservative Party of BC team will take over MLA Brodie’s files — including advocating to ensure the Law Society of BC uses accurate language in training materials, and does not unduly agitate against its members.

“The privilege, and platform, of being a Conservative MLA comes with an expectation and responsibility to do the right thing — mocking former residential school students giving testimony, including testimony about child sex abuse by pedophiles, is beyond the pale.”

So Rustad is clear that his objection to Brodie’s comments wasn’t about stating the fact that no bodies have been found. It’s about how she went about it.

And what have we learned from this? First, we know that if you ask for empirical evidence of the existence of bodies buried at residential schools, you’re likely going to be attacked as racist, as being a denialist and engaging in “ugly” talk — at the least, accused of “a form” of denialism — because many strongly believe the bodies are there, regardless of lack of substantiating evidence, and that they already know the truth.

Second, if you do bring it up, it must be done respectfully, because many indigenous survivors and their families are genuinely hurting. How you say it is as important as what you say.

And thirdly, we do not yet understand, or acknowledge, the actual meaning of the words “racism” and “denialism.”

The price being paid by the Conservative party is a deep and possibly disastrous split among its elected members that might well see the creation of another party in B.C. politics. The price paid by society is a continuing inability to find common ground on reconciliation.

Mel Rothenburger is a former regular contributor to CFJC-TV and CBC radio, publishes the ArmchairMayor.ca opinion website, and is a recipient of the Jack Webster Foundation Lifetime Achievement Award, and a Webster Foundation Commentator of the Year finalist. He has served as mayor of Kamloops, school board chair and TNRD director, and is a retired daily newspaper editor.  He can be reached at mrothenburger@armchairmayor.ca.