IN THE HOUSE – ‘Do you know the names of these people, yes or no?’

Frank Caputo (Conservative), Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

Thank you. I appreciate all of the witnesses for being here.

I’ll direct the following questions to Minister LeBlanc.

The NSICOP report that was recently released reveals that parliamentarians, including members of our House, the House of Commons, knowingly and deliberately assisted a hostile foreign state to the detriment of the people of Canada. This places a cloud of suspicion over every single member of the House—elected members.

Do you know the names of these people?

I am updated regularly and in a complete way by our intelligence agencies, the RCMP and the Department of Public Safety, so I am very comfortable that I have the information I need to do the work I have to do. However, you’ll understand that discussing the details, particularly of the most sensitive information, is not something we want to do publicly.

Frank Caputo (Conservative), Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

I know that a number of names surfaced in various intelligence products I have seen, but I was not in the room when the committee of parliamentarians did its work. I don’t have the exact details of which documents it saw and didn’t see, but I am very comfortable that I have access to all of the most important intelligence information, which would include, in some cases, names.

Okay. People are alleged, in some cases, according to our intelligence communities, to have committed some of the most serious offences known to Canadian law. Are you prepared to release their names, yes or no?

No.

You will not release the names of elected members operating in the House of Commons. Do you think Canadians have a right to know, yes or no?

It’s important for Canadians to understand that these names are contained in intelligence reports. In some cases, it’s uncorroborated or unverified intelligence information.

I think we need to be very careful to understand, as the director himself has said, that intelligence is often a series of puzzle pieces. One particular piece of the puzzle, an intelligence source or information, may not have context or may be discredited or altered by subsequent information. The idea that there is a perfect list of names that is entirely reliable—

Minister, sorry—

Minister, the NSICOP report doesn’t equivocate like you just did. The NSICOP report is incredibly clear on names.

Do you think Canadians have the right to know—

It’s not actually clear on names.

I’m not done my question, Minister.

Do you think Canadians have the right to know, when they cast an X next to the name of somebody in the next 15 months—the very thing that we’re dealing with here in Bill C-70—whether a member is under the influence of a hostile foreign state, yes or no?

I think Canadians know, and I’m confident they have every reason to be reassured, that our intelligence agencies and the RCMP take their responsibilities extraordinarily seriously and have the resources necessary to investigate. Should the RCMP, for example, in its wisdom, decide that charges should be laid in consultation with the appropriate prosecutors, that’s our system in a rule-of-law democracy. It’s not simply releasing a series of names or, as Mr. Caputo says he’s concerned about, casting aspersions on everybody by pretending that there’s some perfect list of names that the government is not releasing. No other western democracy knows this.

Mr. Caputo knows that in the government of Mr. Harper, even that kind of conversation wouldn’t have been conceivable, so I think there’s a certain disingenuous element in Mr. Caputo’s theatrics this morning.

Under Mr. Harper’s government, we did not get a report that said foreign state actors had infiltrated—

It’s because you didn’t support setting up NSICOP.

Speaking of being disingenuous, in Mr. Harper’s government the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians didn’t exist because Mr. Harper’s government didn’t believe that parliamentarians should have access to this information or be able to review the work of our intelligence agencies. During Mr. Harper’s government in 2013, CSIS publicly identified an increasing risk of foreign interference in our democratic institutions—

It didn’t identify names.

Don’t interrupt.

—and the Harper government did absolutely nothing.

Again, I think it’s important to have context for these comments.

Then you are okay with people going into an election and putting an X beside a name when they have a cloud of suspicion for every single one of us.

Let’s face it, Minister. I think if there were six Conservatives on that list and no Liberals, we would have the names. Let’s be honest here.

Thank you, Mr. Caputo. The minister may answer.

Pardon me; I think I have another minute.

No, you don’t.

Okay, thank you. I’m sorry.

The minister may answer if he wishes.

Mr. Caputo makes something up in saying that if there were six Conservatives and no other political parties on the list, of course we would release it. I’m not going to violate the Security of Information Act and risk prosecution for a political stunt, and I think Mr. Caputo knows better.

Source: OpenParliament.ca